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Patriot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long story short.(well kinda) My M77 25-06 no longer likes H4831 with all but one of the bullets I've been using for a few decades. The last bullet that it gives good accuracy with is the 120gr. partition. It must have erosion ahead of the chamber. The partition is a good hunting load but I like to shoot 100-500yd. targets for fun. I need a cheaper bullet to throw down range. Plain old Win.120gr.P.E.P. factory loads still shoot good. My thinking is factory loads probably use faster powders than H4831?
So,has anyone tried H4350, IMR4350 or Accurate 4350 in the 25-06? Or do you know of another powder to try that's faster than H4831 that may work?
My barrel is probably near or at the end of its life but the rifle still looks brand new. As you may have guessed,I shoot a lot and hunt a little. Hogs mostly these days.
Ruger no longer offers any bolt rifles in 25-06. I like the M77 tang safety so I may look into re-barreling (if cost effective) when all else fails.
O.K. Very very long story shortened as best I could. Thanks for reading if you made it this far.:dizzy:
 

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I will preface this by extolling my complete lack of practical experience with that cartridge.

Going by Mr. Lee's "2nd Edition", H4350 is a little bit faster. Varget and H4895 do have listed loadings. Vihtavuori N160 looks useful, and Powder Valley has had it in stock lately. I have been impressed with the Vihtavuori line of powders, for clean burning, good 'throwing', and decent groups. They are expensive though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm leaning toward IMR4350. Never thought of Vihtavuori powders. Looks like N160 could be a good choice for 100gr. and 117gr. bullets. N560 could be a good one for the 117/120gr. bullets? Although it could be seen as a slow powder in the 25-06. In Hodgdons loading data H4895 is the fastest powder listed for the 25-06. It may be too fast for good results? When I first bought my 25-06 I had some left-over powders from my 30-06. I was able to use some of those with 87gr. bullets with limited success. Not being a varmint hunter I only use 100gr.+ bullet weights.
I live in S.E.Texas. We only have 3-4 months of cool weather. That's when I do most of my high power rifle shooting. But I do want to get a jump on it this year.
 

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Vihtavuori's 5XX powders are double-based - nitroglycerin added. Near as I can tell from reading, the combo gets some increased power from compressed loads. The company states that the powders are coated to avoid increased corrosion from the nitroglycerin.

For your purposes (not looking for max velocities), I don't see an attraction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Vihtavuori's 5XX powders are double-based - nitroglycerin added. Near as I can tell from reading, the combo gets some increased power from compressed loads. The company states that the powders are coated to avoid increased corrosion from the nitroglycerin.

For your purposes (not looking for max velocities), I don't see an attraction.
Good to know.
Thanks for sharing.
Can never have too much information.
Thanks again.
 

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Definitely try IMR4350. I had a 25-06 that loved it with 87 gr. Hornadys. Not sure how it will do with the heavy bullets. You'll probably give up some speed. I'd try some other bullet weights too. Good luck! The 26-06 is the best dual threat round out there IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
spikedriver,
Thanks, I'll try the IMR4350. I think Bass Pro had some on the shelf last time I was over there. I have Sierra 100gr., 117gr. SPBT's and Hornady 117gr. SST. in my supply. If I loose some speed at least I'm still shooting. I've used Hornady 87gr. in the past. No reason I can't get more just to punch paper.
Thanks for the reply.
 

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MagnumBlackhawk -

Did you get to try the 4350 yet? I'm curious to see how it worked out for you. Hope you got nice little cloverleafs on paper!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Did you get to try the 4350 yet? I'm curious to see how it worked out for you. Hope you got nice little cloverleafs on paper!
Not yet. I'm playing with loads for the 9mm right now. Also doing a stock restoration on an old shotgun.

It gets hot in this part of the country and your rifle gets hot really fast. I spend a lot of time in-between shots to keep the barrel from over heating this time of year. So it makes for a time consuming range session. I'll get around to the mighty 25 after I'm done with those other projects.
 

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Tommycourt
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Magnum,
Years ago I used to do a lot of big game hunting:elk, mule deer, white deer and black bear. At that time I was shooting my Remington 700 BDL 7mm magnum. I used to load when game hunting (4831, 63 grns). I was shooting a 175gr Nosler partition which is much different than the partition used today. When I was loading for practice I would use 4895 as my powder at the time because I was using less powder and the cost was more effective. According to my charts I was shooting a 51 grn. Spitzer bullet, 51 grns. of powder and my fps was @3054. When shooting at smaller game (white tail and mulies) I used the 4895. This may or may not be of use to you, but the 4895 was very effective when hunting and the 4831 was an excellent powder at the time for smaller bullets. IMR-4895 or IMR-4895 is a faster burning powder than H-4350 or IMR-4350. Out of the 110 powders listed in Lyman's IMR 4350, H4350 is listed @#88 & 89 respectively. H-4895 & IMR 4895 is listed as #67 &67 respectively. The higher the number the slower burn rate of the powder. Since you are using a lighter round and wish to have more fps I would lean towards the 4895. From experience I can tell you it is a cleaner burning powder. I don't know if this will help you since it has been years since I have reloaded rifle but I do keep all my records and even my expended boxes of shells marked with powder, bullets and loads. If you have any questions, drop me a pm and I will try to help you more. Hope I have this all right!
Tommy
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Tommy,
I had been thinking H4895 may be too fast burning for the 25-06? But, it could turn out to be a possibility for my barrel that I believe to be almost "shot out". If my theory that some factory loads still shoot good because they use faster powders than I have always used has any merit,(?) maybe I should try 4895. And, it working in a 7mm Mag. gives hope that it could be good in the 25-06. Can never conduct too many experiments you know.:duck:

The on-line Hodgdon data is confusing for H4350 and IMR4350. The order the powders are listed would indicate that IMR4350 is the faster of the two just like you said. Usually the faster burning powders use a lighter charge than the slower powders. In all of the data for 100 gr-120 gr bullets, IMR uses more powder than the slower H4350. Don't guess any of that really matters though.

After all, reloading is the experimenters delight.
Color me delighted.
Thanks for the input.
 

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Tommycourt
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Magnum,
I will try this again as I posted once and forgot to hit the post sign. IMR 4064 (rank #74) is recommended as a good rifle powder although it is slower than the 4895. Years ago I had a Steyr-Mannlicher .222 magnum and I used the 4831 which was giving me great speed and accuracy although I was shooting a lighter bullet (50-60 grn). 4831 makes a good powder for Thompson Centers and other Thompson's with light bullets. You want something more to handle 100-130 grn bullets, which might make the IMR4064 a good candidate. It's hard to believe you shot the barrel out unless at one time you used a corrosive powder or have shot tens of thousands of rounds through your rifle but Ruger made a helluva good rifle. It sounds like a Ruger #1 which was an outstanding rifle. You know as a reloader, fps doesn't necessarily make an accurate round as some rifles will digest different bullets differently. A suggestion would be to try the IMR4064 with your standard usage bullet and see how your accuracy comes out. This is a suggestion only cuz this damned book I have is Lymans 3rd edition and they don't list all the powders like they used to. Powder charges might have to be adjusted to prior usage but that is part of reloading although I hate to waste money on powder that I don't like. I hope I haven't confused you to the point of frustration, all I can do is give you the experiences I had way back when and bullets and powders have made great strides since my days of rifle shooting. If you have any problems, drop me a pm and I will try as much as possible to help you out. Good luck and let me know how you turn out!
Tommy
 

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Ruger no longer offers any bolt rifles in 25-06. I like the M77 tang safety so I may look into re-barreling (if cost effective) when all else fails.
Another option may be to have the barrel set back. Your barrel's throat area
is probably trashed....how far, only a bore scope can determine. It would also
allow one to see what shape the lands & grooves are in further down the
bore. A good 'smith could help ya out there. Whether it would be cost
effective or not (or even possible with that barrel), only you and your 'smith
could decide.

Back in the late '60's, early '70's, Hornady's Reloading Handbook of the time
listed IMR4895 loads for 75-100gr bullets. They also noted which loads were
the most accurate in their test rifle, and that's what I used. Fortunately, a
speed of 3300fps for 75gr HP and 3100fps for 100gr SP had the same
trajectory out to around 400yds, and in my 700BDL, POI was the same!
Never had that luck with any other combination in any other rifle since!

I've since lost that Handbook, but if you can find that information of grains
used, your rifle MAY shoot accurately with 100gr bullets pushed by
IMR4895. Wish I could be of more help.
 

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From what I'm reading "Magnum" your throat is burned out and your having to find your self a load to push the bullet a little farther than normal to get a good group, with that said I would look in to finding a gunsmith to rebarrle or replace the gun if you look around on "FaceBook" if u use it you will find gun pages that r buying and selling fire arms. I also use "armslist.com" I like my 25-06 a lot I just want to find good loads and over all info on the round.
** has any one tried the hornady sst 117gr bullets I'm thinking about buying a box and having my buddy load some rounds up with that. Any loads work good with that bullet I'd like to know!!!
 

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Mitch, 4831 should be a good place to start with the 117 grainer. Of course, who knows if your gun will like it...but that's where I'd go first. YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Did you get to try the 4350 yet? I'm curious to see how it worked out for you. Hope you got nice little cloverleafs on paper!
When I worked the 117gr Sierra SPBT & IMR 4350 all the way up to MAX,MAX I got the best groups of (2 and 1/8" @ 100yd), not good enough.
Funny, they shoot higher than any other load I've ever used, mine or factory?
Next I'll try the 100gr Sierra SPBT. Maybe it will do better.

Just to add a little to Tommy's good advice, Varget and H414 are worth a shot too.
I may try H414, Varget or 4895 before I give up and buy a Weatherby. They offer a 25-06 in a few models.
Don't know why the 25-06 is not more popular. It shoots flat, hits hard, has mild recoil and works for deer and hogs.
Bullets, brass and factory ammo are not the easiest things to find, I'm sticking with it anyway.

Mitch, 4831 should be a good place to start with the 117 grainer. Of course, who knows if your gun will like it...but that's where I'd go first. YMMV.
Hey Mitch, some say H4831 is the go to powder for the 25-06. Mine loved it with 100gr~120gr bullets before I trashed my barrel.......
 

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For light bullets, Varget can be very good. I've seen a couple Remington 700s in 25-06 go under 1/2 inch with Varget. I wonder what Ramshot Big Game would do with heavy bullets?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So I've tried IMR 4350 with Sierra 117 gr SPBT's and Sierra 100 gr SPBT's. (I had both bullets in my supply).
The 117 gr didn't too well. The 100 gr did much better but still not as accurate as I need / want.

Today I shot some factory loads that have been giving good enough accuracy. They shot worse than my 100 gr / IMR 4350 load!
Yep, my barrel is done for.

Gonna just hang it on the wall instead of bothering with searching out a smith that can re-barrel and get it right using a standard barrel.
I'm sure there are some out there, but I've had bad luck getting 'regular' work done on pistols and shotguns. It's the old "once bitten" thing.
At some point I may just pay what it takes to have one of the big outfits put a target barrel on it. Till then, wall hanger.

Now I get to buy a new rifle in 25-06. It's always fun to shoot something different anyway. :D Probably a Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic.
Hey spikedriver, you're right about IMR 4350. It's done very well considering. I will definitely use it in the new 25.
Thanks Guys.
 
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