VT punting again

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by VThillman, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    I'm in the process of taking a Really Big Step (again).

    My hearing is still going, and the pace may even be accelerating. I can still understand speech though, as long as folks 'speak up'. Contemplating the aftereffects of firing my SR40c in an enclosed space, necessarily without hearing protection, has scared me. I have some reason to believe that the 45 auto round, being 'low pressure', is less damaging noise-wise. My bedside gun is a 45, but it's too heavy to be my carry gun.

    What I would like is an SR45c. There ain't any such thing as an SR45c. So I have a Smith&Wesson M&P Shield 45 coming. My SR40c is now surplus, I need to sell it. Another gun on consignment at the LGS.

    Hmm; my only other gun in 40S&W is the Hi-Point carbine. I also have the 45 auto version, so I could sell that 40S&W too, and be free of that cartridge and the 9x19. Less reload messing around.

    I wonder why I feel like I'm getting pretty far out on a bendy limb here.

    :dunno:
     
  2. spikedriver

    spikedriver Active Member

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    I'm out on that limb with ya VT. I've looked at several non-
    9mm handguns in the last year and a half. I decided to pass on them because I have a 9mm already, it does what I want it to do, and I don't want, need, or have room for another stockpile of ammo. Sometimes keeping it simple has advantages.
     

  3. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I found this caliber db list. The 44 spl actually is of the lower rated db handgun calibers. The 9, 40, and 357 being the highest damage producing calibers. I have shot my Kimber 45 without hearing protection and my ears didn't suffer pain effect from the one shot.
    The thing to understand about decibel differences it that just a few points is a much bigger effect on the hearing damage and pain threshold than just a small expected effect. By the db ratings it is no wonder the 9 and 357 are so hard on the ears.
    I am so liking the Bulldog 44 spl more as I shoot it.
    25 ACP 155.0 dB
    .32 LONG 152.4 dB
    .32 ACP 153.5 dB
    .380 157.7 dB
    9mm 159.8 dB
    .38 S&W 153.5 dB
    .38 Spl 156.3 dB
    .357 Magnum 164.3 dB
    .41 Magnum 163.2 dB
    .44 Spl 155.9 dB
    .45 ACP 157.0 dB
    .45 COLT 154.7 dB
     
  4. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The 40 must be too high off the chart....



    Jim
     
  5. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    There need to be more specifications than you list, Buster. The 38 special, for instance, must vary quite a bit depending on the load. eh?
     
  6. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    From what I read the 40 is said to be between the 9mm and the 357 for loudness. The 40 having the KA RACK sound like the 9 and 357. Where as the 45 is more of a boom than a KA--RACK sound.
    Those S&W M&P Shield 45 can be bought at a very good price of around $350.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  7. spikedriver

    spikedriver Active Member

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    Hmm...subjectively, I find the 9 to be less earsplitting than most others. I wonder what difference barrel length makes? i.e., I have only fired 45ACP from 1911s with 5" barrels. I noticed no difference from 9mm in full size pistols (Taurus 92, Smith 5906, RugerP89), except the 45 gave a thump that I seemed to feel in my chest more than the 9 did. Now, my LC9s with 3.1" barrel definitely has a shorter, sharper report than a full size 1911. I just assumed it was due to unburned powder
    on its way out of the barrel...
     
  8. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    VT (Bob),

    From my understanding is your hearing loss is becoming more of a problem, as I have the same problem. I have the TV so loud that my wife is always yelling at me. I can tell you this, the difference between my 9mm SR1911 is quite a bit different from my full size SR1911 .45 cal. The 9mm is a 4 1/2" barrel vs a 5 inch barrel. The only problem is a full size 1911 is a handful to use for any EDC. Now the 9mm is not bad at all to carry and it is much lighter. The report will depend a little on which bullet you prefer also. I have not shot a .40, but been next to one at the range and it really has a loud report. Maybe a Glock model 19 gen 4 would be better to carry although I hate Glocks personally. The Hornady 126gr. Critidal Defense bullet will do a lot of damage when it comes to self defense and in a gun fight, you won't hear the sounds anyway once adrenaline starts to flow. I really enjoy my 9mm SR1911 and am carrying it more and more due to the higher temperatures in our weather. My ears are becoming more sensitive to noise so when I go to the range I wear both ear plugs and muffs. Having an enclosed range with no sound deadening is really hard on the ears. I have walked out to the range before just to hear the sound decibels with no ear protection just to see what it was like. No way will I ever do that again. Personally it sounds like a 9mm, regardless of weapon chosen, might be a good deal for you. That's my HO only.

    Tommy
     
  9. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    Tommy, thanks for the analysis and advice (really!). Hearing loss is apparently not a simple thing; it does me no good to crank up the sound on my TV. I hear the midrange fairly well, the low frequencies are down some but no big amount. Sound frequencies above about 2KHztaper off pretty fast, so by 4KHz they are mostly gone. That all means that I can hear people talking at a normal level of speech, but the consonant sounds ain't there. I say "What?" a lot.

    I need to Google for detailed data on relative sound levels - and the frequencies, because I think that matters - for the various handgun cartridges. when/if I find the data, I will summarize it here and provide some links.

    In the meantime, I have put the SR40c in the gun cabinet and put the LCRx3 back in service.
     
  10. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I read that even though a person is wearing hearing protection the sound vibrations are picked up by the jaw bones and still get to the inner ear. According to this is why being at a range where so many guns are being shot the noise level is damaging to a person's hearing even if they are just standing there not shooting.
    Maybe wearing a full cover M/C helmet would cut down on the felt sound vibrations to the jaw bones. If politicians really cared for people's health they would make silencers legal again. Maybe the NRA should get on that band wagon.
    There is a shooting range that was sued by a customer because he claimed his hearing was damaged from being in the closed off shooting area. There is a sign posted at the entrance door stating hearing and eye protection must be worn beyond the entrance door. Every customer even has to sign a waver before entering the shooting area. The man won the case for a huge amount and the rates for using the range have now gone up.

    https://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2009/05/15/hearing-through-your-bones
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  11. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    Well shucks. Seems like comprehensive data (including gun type, barrel length, bullet weight, velocity) ought to be out there. Maybe it is, but I can't find it. I found Buster's list in several places, including the m14forum - in a post from 18DEC2009 by Wheelgunner. There is a list at m1911.org/loudness.htm that includes a dB level for the 44 Mag, but is otherwise no more detailed. I found more extensive data at:

    http://www.caohc.org/userfiles/fileShot%20Prevention%20extra%20handout.pdf

    but that link doesn't work now (?) It doesn't give the details I'm looking for anyway.

    I did notice a list giving identical dB readings from a 357 mag and a 44 mag. That may be, but my experience tells me that the 44 mag sound is more impressive. Hah.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  12. spikedriver

    spikedriver Active Member

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    Impressive, indeed, VT...
     
  13. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    VT,
    My house sits high on a hill , overlooking my pistol range, and I can see my shooting bench from my front porch.
    It's approx 75 yards.

    I said that to say this.

    My buddy comes over to shoot once in a while.
    We always look at what he brings to shoot , then he goes and shoots.

    Wife and I , be sitting in the living room, when he is shooting.

    She says"what was that"?
    I says "357"
    then she says "ok what was that" ?
    I says "45"
    She says "what was that one smarty pants"?
    I says "41 mag"

    Get the picure?

    Now , my point is, that from a distance, you get a much better "hearing picture" of the guns report. these 3 have a distinct boom/roar, while the 38, 9mm, 357, have a distinct crack/pow sound.

    I can tell you that the 44 mag and the 41 mag are close in DB,and very loud.
    The next loudest is the 40 cal.

    I can tell you that the rifle reports are deciphered the same way, with no doubtaboutit to anyone, which one was the 50 BMG.;):)
    It's harder to distiguish rifle reports because so many are close, 30-06, 308, 270, etc,
    But ahhhh....the 45-70 has its own, along with a 12 ga.:D


    jusy my $.002.



    Jim
     
  14. allenr

    allenr Member

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    I have been wearing two hearing aids for the past two years. Hearing deficiencies are complex in nature. The only way to have your hearing problem diagnosed is to have a hearing test by a reputable audiologist. If you decide to get hearing aids they are programmed to correct your specific hearing deficiencies. Be aware that some devices are called hearing aids but are ting more than amplifiers. They don't resolve hearing problems they just magnify all levels of sounds. Very few people benefit from them.

    When I got me hearing test results I took them to several places to get estimates for aids. The highest was Miracle Ear at $6000. It thought I was talking to a snake oiler salesman. My audiologist wanted $3700 which seemed about right based on prices some friends had paid. Then I fou No out that Cotsco is one of the largest hearing aid suppliers in the US. I stoped I at a Cotsco an the aids that my audiologist wanted $3700 for cost me $2800 with a 3 year warranty, a full year better than my audiologist offer. So I bought from Cotsco. While I can hear without them except for certain higher pitched tones, I hear so much better with them that I will never do without.
     
  15. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I went for a hearing test provided by a hearing aid company held at one of the local churches bout every 3 months. My hearing wasn't as bad as I thought it was but I do have a narrow range I don't hear to well. He put in an hearing aid to show me the difference in my hearing. Personally I didn't like the sound of it because it was like hearing through a sea shell. This reminded me of when I shot a 9mm a few times without hearing protection when I first got into shooting.

    With all the gizmoze he had to offer it was going to cost me around $7000 and I thought no way Jose. Maybe some day farther in the future my hearing might require hearing aids to be able to hear but not for no 7 grand. I look at what my cell phone can do and it only cost me $50. I felt what a rip off these hearing aid companies are.
     
  16. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    I want to relate this to all who may be reading. My step son retired from LE 2 months ago after serving 28 years. About a year ago, while he had excellent benefits with LE he had hearing aids installed. Cost to him was nothing but the insurance that he had was charged $8,000.00 for them. Now you would think that his problems would be solved. NO-NO-NO! He could not drive in his squad car with the drivers window down because of the wind noise. Certain pitches of sound he still cannot get, high pitched tones and low energy tones. When he drives with the window down he has to shut off the left hearing aid because all he hears is wind. Batteries have been replaced twice in the last year. Now that he is retired he no longer has any LE insurance so all costs come out of his pocket. He told me what the batteries cost, and this memory of mind in no longer totally functional but I remember the batteries costing quite a little. He is not the only person with the same problem. Another buddy of mine who is 80 yrs. old has the same problem especially with wind. Either the window is shut (even driving his Model A) or he turns off the left hearing aid. There are also tones he cannot hear. Like a dumb azz (not the sharpest knife in the drawer) I purchased the Miracle Ear that is advertised on TV so my wife would stop hollering on how loud I have the TV. That was nothing but a scam. Not reading the fine print, it states that it will only work in a room where you have a limited amount of noise, such as a TV but nothing long distance can be picked up. I had my ears professionally checked and they stated that I have lost over 40% of my hearing and there are a lot of tones I cannot hear. When my wife and I go to a movie, I have to ask her : What did they say? If someone calls me on my cell phone, I have to tell them to speak slowly and distinctly so I can understand them. If they speak fast, then the hell with it. Besides that I have tinnitus which is a constant ringing of my ears. Sometimes it is tolerable and other times I just about go bonkers because the ringing is so loud that I get distracted from what I am doing. Hearing loss is nothing to scoff at and for those of us who are hard of hearing, it becomes not only embarrassing but a total nuisance. Having to cup my ear with my hand and people asking me: are you deaf?". I just politely tell them to speak a little louder and slower and I try to watch their mouth move to catch all of what they are saying.
    My ears are getting worse and I know it, but there is little I can do. I am going to search antique shops for one of those old ear horns that they used in the early 1900's. God, it is irritating. Protect your ears whenever you possibly can.

    Tommy
     
  17. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    Ear trumpet, it's called, Tommy. I've thought about making one. Need to see if I can find one on the Internet to look at.

    Your tinnitus is like mine re the high-pitched ringing. There is often a low midrange hum added, that sounds like an electric fan motor. Sometimes those pitches are joined by a hum in between. When all three are going, there isn't much room left for environmental sounds.

    Whee.
     
  18. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Here's mine,
    Got them about 2 months ago,

    hearing.jpg

    They lay on the table beside my recliner, ummmmm, about 99% of the time.
    Like Tommy said ...the wind noise, ambient noise, is so loud , when someone speaks I can't hear them well enough to distinguish their words from the noise,:(
    When the ceiling fan ,on low, drowns out everyone(background noise), to me they are useless.

    These are $6000.00 and remote control , very hi-tech.

    They also make my inside ear itch, and sweat. :(

    These are my second ones , different style.:rolleyes:

    Doubt I'll ever be able to wear them.:dunno:



    Jim
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  19. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I have the same problem when talking on the cell phone. If people talk fast what they say just runs all together. I notice it more with people speaking in certain voice tones. I have to tell those people to talk slower.
    I really hate trying to watch movies where they have the background music blaring so darn loud I can't even hear what they are saying. For cripe sake I didn't want to hear a rock band loud music, I wanted to watch and hear the dang movie.
    I went to a demolition derby and couldn't hardly hear the cars with straight pipes because they were playing music so loud it even hurt my ears. I haven't gone to a demolition derby there since that one time. Absolute BS I couldn't hardly enjoy the derby because they had to be blaring music so loud. Many kids even were covering their ears because it was hurting their ears.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  20. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    Back on track... picked up the Shield this PM. Cleaned it, loaded up the two magazines, ready to 'shoot it in'. The trigger is a might rough and stiff, but it will probably clean up some with use. As you probably know, the Shield has single stack magazines, holding 6 and 7 rounds. The grip/stock is quite narrow, measures .965" at its plumpest point. That is quite noticeably narrower in the hand than the SR40c. The pebbling is pretty aggressive though, maybe why most reviewers say the gun is controllable. Like the other M&Ps, the gun looks 'utilitarian'. The SR40c is significantly handsomer I think, if that matters. If it just goes bang every time, and I can hit what I'm shooting at, and it doesn't deafen me when/if I shoot it 'for real', that's a recipe I'm good with.

    :cool: