Primers and FTF (fail to fire)

Discussion in 'Ammo & Reloading' started by Tommycourt, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    I went to the range today with my SR1911 LW Commander and was faced with the same situation that I had last week. I reloaded about 200 rounds using CCI primers and again this week, I had almost 75% of them that were failure to fire. I am getting good firing pin hits but they don't go off. I pull out the mag, eject the round for inspection, re-insert the round into the mag and try again. The second time they will fire. I also use Winchester primers and have had only 1 FTF. The firing pin is hitting the primers hard but the CCI primers just will not fire the first time. A year ago, I think, I talked to CCI factory rep. and he told me that they had changed the anvil inside of the primers they now produce. At that time I was shooting a Gen 4 Model 19 Glock (which I don't have presently) and the factory rep. told me that Glock had problems with light strikes. I know my firing pin is striking the primer hard enough but it's almost as if you have to rotate the round to make it ignite. Is anyone else experiencing any problems with CCI primers?

    Tommy
     
  2. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I use the big and small cci primers for 38 spl and 44 spl. I very seldom have a primer fail to fire but it has happened a couple times. Not bad for a couple thousand rounds I guess. I have only used CCI primers.

    I have had off the shelf 22lr that didn't fire after 3 times tried. That sort of goes with 22lr I guess. I might have a few out of a brick that fail.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017

  3. SavageGuy

    SavageGuy Active Member

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    Just the other day I had two CCI 200 (large rifle?) primers fail to fire. They didn't work the second time either
     
  4. Oldhand

    Oldhand AKA Rawhidekid! Lifetime Supporter

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    Tommy, make sure you clean your primer pockets, sounds like your not seating them deep enough. Only time I have had trouble with CCI primer was small rifle, switched to small pistol Magnum primers and problem solved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  5. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Tommy,
    I use CCI primers a lot, Mostly magnum primers,
    Have not had any problems.



    Jim
     
  6. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    Handy,

    I am using my Lyman hand primer when I reload so it mounts them flush to the top of the casing. As far as primer pocket cleaning I do clean them however if this were the same type of brass casing I would suspect that was the culprit. The casings I am using are various kinds that I pick up at the range. When I talked to CCI the rep told me that they had eliminated part of the primer in order to save money. I truly think by changing that primer they erased/removed part of the anvil in the primer so you have to strike it just right to make it ignite. After they FTF I would rotate the round in the mag and then try it again and then it would go off. I had 1 primer I tried 3 times and it still FTF. If my primer pockets weren't clean then why would the Winchester primers fire without a problem? I did have 1 Winchester that did not fire the first time, however that could be a bad primer or just a fluke. The rep also told me that the primers should be below the casing .003 because firing pins will extend up to .007. I know you hand load but the Lyman hand primer will only allow you to set the primer in the flush condition. When I prime a round, I run my finger over the round to insure that the primer is fully seated. I guess I am just not happy with the CCI primers however my brother sent them to me to try out. I don't know if he had problems himself with them or not. I need to call him. I sure don't like the way they package the CCI primers either.

    Tommy
     
  7. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    My experience....

    Soft = Federal,
    Next hard is Remington,
    Next harder is Winchester,
    The CCI is the hardest primer,

    AND.if it's not seated all the way in the bottom of the pocket ...chances are high that they will not activate the anvil. The primer will absorb the impact and move forward with the force .

    I use a Lee hand primer and make sure all my primers are at least .005 below surface , up to .010 below.


    My 2 coppers.



    Jim
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  8. Oldhand

    Oldhand AKA Rawhidekid! Lifetime Supporter

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    The reason I said what I did was the indication was not seated deep enough, As Phideaux indicated the first hammer hits it putting it deeper the second ignites. I thought if you were not cleaning the burnt powder could be keeping it from fully seating. I use a RCBS Rock Chucker and CCI primers only. Sometimes I have to stand up and put pressure on to seat those suckers fully in. Good luck partner.;)
     
  9. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    Jim,

    That is good knowledge to know about the hardness of the primers. I did NOT realize that the CCI primers were that hard. I don't think I can adjust my Lyman primer to set the primer any deeper but will take a look and see. I do notice that some primers (Winchester) enter the priming well easier than others and a "hair" below the head of the casing. You can learn something every day and I thank you for posting that. I know that some of my brass are really getting old and have been fired many times so maybe it's time to start sorting them out. One casing I do NOT like nor try to re-use are the Blazer casings. Normally I always check to see the name of the casings but some slip through. When I get a Blazer, I can tell immediately and chuck it into the trash. You can instantly feel the resistance.

    Thanks again for the posting,

    Tommy..........from the land of eternal summers.
     
  10. MagBlackhawk

    MagBlackhawk Patriot

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    The last time I bought small pistol primers I bought 5,000 CCI.
    At this point I believe I've fired about 900~1,000, all went bang... So far so good.

    As the other guys said, I seat them below flush to the case head.




    :usa:
     
  11. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    According to SAAMI, the depths for small pistol, small rifle, and large pistol primer pockets are .118" to .122", Small pistol and small rifle primers have the same diameter (.175") while large rifle and large pistol primers are also the same (.210").

    Thats a .004 tolerance for pocket depth,
    I can tell you the the primer height tolerance , per SAMMI, is .010....go figger.

    So I would measure the primer height, and then measure the pocket depth( or assume it's to above specs),
    Then you can figgure how deep, or not deep enough, your seating the primers.



    :)
    Jim
     
  12. Oldhand

    Oldhand AKA Rawhidekid! Lifetime Supporter

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    I have been reloading the Blaser brass with no problem other than they are not easy to clean. But no one said it had to be pretty to shoot.:D
     
  13. gwpercle

    gwpercle Member

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    Here is a little trick you can try.
    When seating the primer make sure it bottoms out fully into the pocket , then spin the case 180 degrees in the shell holder and apply another press on the handle to again fully seat the primer and in theory to pre-sensitize the priming compound for easier ignition.
    I was instructed to do this by an older shooter/reloader and I started doing it on my single stage press and then with a hand priming tool off press. I'm not sure if the pre-sensitizing of the compound is for real but ever since I started seating , spinning 180 degrees and seating again , my primer problems have gone away.
    You don't have to measure anything....if the primer is not fully seated , all the way bottomed out, then the first blow will seat the primer....the second time it will fire because it's now seated...that's the truth.
    Try seating a few like this and see....won't cost anything and might be the easy fix .
    If you are loading on a progressive machine then this will not help.
    Gary
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  14. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    Gw,

    Thanks for the tip on seating the primer. Since I hand load all my primers I will give that a try and see if it makes a difference. Only question I have is why the Winchester primers have no problems igniting and the CCI's do. I think Jim may have hit it on the head with the hardness of the primer. But I have nothing to loose trying it your way to see if it makes a difference. Good thing is I have used up all my CCI's but there may be a point that I may have to use them if Winchesters become unavailable.

    Tommy
     
  15. gwpercle

    gwpercle Member

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    Tommy,
    I have no idea why primers do/don't do things....they are like women. we need them but can't figure them out.

    There may be something to that pre-sensitizing the priming compound for any easier ignition.....I'm not sure , but it doesn't cost anything to try.
    Give it a shot (bad pun intended) and see if it makes a difference. Keep us posted on what you discover.
    I do the seating , 180 turn, seating again just out of habit, it may be nothing to it.
    The "theory" of it sounded good back then .
    In the 60's to 80's primers were nearly 100% reliable....now , the Quality Control and the speed of manufacture has left a lot more reliability problems.
    Load Safe,
    Gary
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017