point n shoot

Discussion in 'Range Reports' started by buster40c, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

    8,549
    267
    83
    I often think about the old westerns, real life shootings and even some present day speed shooter competitions that using the gun sights just isn't used. I have seen speed shooters using revolvers from western holsters firing from the hip right out of the holster hitting on target. In the old days it seemed it was draw and fire not draw then sight in then shoot. But that is the movies so..... That has got to take a lot of practice getting eye to hand to brain to target coordination going naturally.

    I have been shown that the gun will pretty much follow the shooters sight on target. I do believe it could take quite a bit of practice getting the eyesight to brain to hand being automatic action. I imagine quite often in shooting there isn't time to sight in on target using the sights on the gun. I am wondering if it wouldn't be easier sighting in on the whole body rather than a pin point while the body is in motion. I am thinking it is all about training the mind to react and signal rather than trying to align using the gun sight view.

    I have a laser pistol and for the heck of it I wanted to see if I shot on target often or not using point and shoot. When I pull the trigger the laser puts a red dot on point of aim. Surprisingly I often did hit on target more often than not using PnS. I also noticed my second or third shots were often more on target than the first shot. I guess it is the mind to hand making adjustment to hit more precise on sighted target. I am thinking if I were to practice more using point and shoot I might get pretty accurate with it.

    I am going to try this with my MK IV on paper target to see what results I get. Has anyone here had experience using point and shoot while range shooting? What were your results?
     
  2. paulruger

    paulruger Active Member

    694
    70
    28
    Good luck wi dat!
     

  3. greg_r

    greg_r Well-Known Member

    685
    124
    53
    I shoot bows instinctively.

    I also shoot personal defense firearms instinctively.

    These are all close range though. Usually within 25 yards. I am accurate enough, but not as accurate as if I use sights. Example: with my flatbow, I will put all arrows in an area the size of a desert plate at 20 yards. With my old Robin Hood Little John bracket bow with sights and a release, I can literally shoot the nocks off the other arrows at 20 yards.

    Some defensive handguns come without sights. The Charter Arms Boomer and Seecamp semi-automatic come to mind. I have long been an advocate of "point and shoot" for a personal defense handgun. A lesson learned from actual experience. Your personal defense handgun needs to be point and shoot simple as well. A DA revolver is perfect, but if you like semi automatics, they are available. I like KAHR, but GLOCK, Bersa BPCC, and the Ruger "Pro" models fit the bill as well. There are others.

    You are not trying to hit a groundhog at 300 yards, but an assailant at what is likely feet. Honestly, you don't have time to take the opportunity to line up the sights. Things happen fast. Another thing to remember is that you are shooting to stop the threat, not to kill. Utmost accuracy is not important.

    As an aside. Not all defense shootings are up close and personal. A recent example is the incident at the school cookout in Florida. There were lots of people there in harm's way. Accuracy is important to prevent collateral damage. Please use the sights.
     
    armbruse and DParker like this.
  4. quirky

    quirky Active Member

    190
    54
    28
    Let the handgun become a natural extension of your finger when it's pointing at something, it's certainly more intuitive than learning to use sights. It's one of the reasons having milled in sights on my new EC9 doesn't bother me and in fact I prefer it, it reminds me of snubby's I've own, it's minimal which is what I like because I have never used sights.

    I only practice at 10 ft. 15 max. (not yards)
    I carry a gun as a last ditch effort, more of a get off me. I'm not looking to engage or try and save the world. Or get somebody innocent hurt. It all sounds good on paper and seems easy out at the range, but shooting across a parking lot or the isle in the store under an adrenalin rush is quite different.

    Remember we don't have a union or free lawyer service to defend us to go spray and pray like the cops do. And unless you have time/cover and or distance you will not be searching for a sight picture. And if you do, them perhaps it's time to call 911 or get the hell away.

    Anyone remember the wannabe hero in Vegas a couple years back at the Walmart who engaged those cop killers, it was the guys girlfriend who killed him. He was to focus on him to notice. And no doubt he had him lined up in the sights.
     
    DParker likes this.
  5. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

    8,549
    267
    83
    Perhaps some of the naysayers might think different if they tried point and shoot to see that they might be surprised with the results.
    Also like was said above most case scenarios a shooting for self defense happens within 10 yards if not 5 yards distance.

    Like was also said self defense use of a gun is last ditch effort to save a life. Granted shooting farther distances would be better to be sighted in. Also far distances might provide more time for sighting rather than PnS.
    Interesting several responses are from those that have actually used PnS.

    I am sure quite often bad situations don't provide time to sight in a target. Tell the BG - Hey you didn't give me time to align my sights on you before you were on top of me. No you are more likely to point and shoot before he is on top of you. For this reason target practice up close using PnS could be a very good practice for better accuracy.

    In most scenarios the BG relies on surprise attack is in his favor.

    Another thing to think about is if you have to pull the trigger as the BG is on top of you then having a semi auto could be the better gun to have. The revolver gap side blast could really do some harm to your body if the gun is right beside your body. Holding a revolver in the fork of a tree the gap side blast blew bark off the tree. I have seen side gap blow apart cardboard as well as badly burn the cardboard.

    There sure is a lot of things to consider when using guns. Real life shootings are more than standing still shooting at a paper target 10-20 yards away. It also would be interesting from those in law enforcement as to how they were trained to shoot in the police academy. Watching old FBI and police training videos showed them training by point and shooting from a crouched position.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  6. Fireman22

    Fireman22 Active Member

    330
    66
    28
    I'm in no way an expert shooter so my opinion should be taken as just that, my opinion. Anyway, I've been getting bored with punching paper so I recently purchased a Big Dong reactive target (photo below). I have only had the opportunity to use it once and it is fun to shoot at. However, I found I was not hitting it well when I aimed like I do when shooting paper targets. On a whim, I decided to try doing a quick draw point and shoot (because no one else was at the range at the time) and discovered I hit the "hostage" more than when I was aiming. I felt my results were adequate for someone without any military or law enforcement training.

    At the time of this exercise, I was using my SR9e at about 11 yards using Blazer Brass 9mm Luger 115-grain ammo. Hopefully I will find the time to get back and practice more point and shoot soon as I find it was both fun and useful to train in a more real world shooting situation.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. nickndfl

    nickndfl Active Member

    485
    69
    28
    They practiced a lot and often their lives depended on it. There were also only a few who were legends and those are who you read about.

    Polish up your game and use The Force. There's only one way to get to Carnegie Hall.
     
  8. paulruger

    paulruger Active Member

    694
    70
    28
    What was that "Kid" Rock song lyric? I wanna be a cowboy baby!
     
  9. rugertoter

    rugertoter Active Member

    324
    105
    43
    I practice a little point shooting every now and then, but beyond 5 yards, I'm not to good.
     
    paulruger likes this.
  10. MagBlackhawk

    MagBlackhawk Patriot

    2,150
    100
    58
    Point N Shoot. The only way to practice with your SD firearm.
    But you do need a pistol that fits the hand well.