out numbered

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by buster40c, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    If you were in a restaurant with or without your family and 4 men come in the door with three being armed would you fire your gun on them or not?
    I think if one of them pointed a gun at me or mine then I would have to draw and shoot. Otherwise I probably wouldn't go against three criminals with guns. I had better hope my shots were accurate and so were my follow up shots on the others.
    From what I read on another forum this is happening at crowded restaurants in broad daylight in Indiana. I would almost bet the criminals target gun free restaurants. I know where I will not be going to eat.
     
  2. DoubleR

    DoubleR Active Member

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    I have thought this scenario out many times. I'm not sure what I would do.
    I wouldn't draw unless me or mine was in fear for our life BUT the question I have is would I be willing to draw for someone. I don't know. Especially in my state I'd be giving up everything. I don't believe I could sit by and let someone else be killed but.........
    It will be interesting to see what everyone has to say. Of course no one REALLY knows until put in the actual position but........
    Good question Buster
     

  3. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    My training , and what I have read, heard, and been taught,
    offense being the best defense.

    I would probably drop, and take aim, and lay one down, and possibly another, before they realized what was happening. I would recognize it and (hopefully) act immediately.

    What I have been taught, heard, and read is the bad guys will be shocked and surprised, and haul their butts out of there, before they had a chance to harm anyone... to save their own tail.

    Now...that's my mindset, and my intentions. that's me.
    Myself and 3 other fellows have received security training for our Church, and that pretty much the way we want it to go down, should it present itself.


    What would happen in reality ....no one knows.



    Jim
     
  4. gunslinger669

    gunslinger669 Active Member

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    There are a few things to consider:
    1. There are other customers in the restaurant whose behavior and reactions are a complete unknown.
    2. Are there any other shooters outside the building you need to consider?
    3. What's behind the four men?
    4. If your family is with you do you put them at risk or anyone else near you by literally drawing attention to yourself?
    5. Do you announce or just start firing?

    It's a difficult scenario to bring to a good conclusion- that being no shots fired and the bad guys surrendering. Most likely someone is going to die. Maybe even several someones if you pull the trigger.

    If they are there to rob, intimidate and leave, let them. Focus on being able to describe them (focus on them and not their clothes) and their method of escape.

    If they are there to terrorize and kill, then pick a good shooting corridor and put them down as quickly as possible. In for a penny, in for a pound.
     
  5. MagBlackhawk

    MagBlackhawk Patriot

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    Lets see, three guys armed with handguns out to kill and/or do no tellin what. Hmm. (Is that why I double tap three targets when I practice)?

    phideaux's plan sounds like a solid one.

    If the thugs are pointing guns at you I don't see how you could draw your weapon faster than they could shoot.
    Of course they might not be able to hit you so you 'could' pull it off. Don't think I would try it though.
    You need a distraction.

    Maybe act like you are blind drunk and don't even know they are there.
    Be yelling and all furious about your meal, maybe throw a plate at the wall while positioning yourself to take cover, draw and shoot.
    Or, how about a knock down drag out fight with your wife or someone at your table. Any distraction could give you time to act.
    Your imagination is the limit on what to do and on what might work. Also, the situation and layout has to be right for whatever you do.
    No matter what, don't let fear stop you from thinking.

    If they are not pointing directly at you, see phideaux's plan. Even if they are, it still could turn out to be the best course of action, depending.

    If you are lucky enough that the BG's don't see you, try to get to cover and then........
    These days you gotta figure they are planing to kill everyone so you got nothing to lose.
    In the good old days, give em the money was the thing to do, nowadays that's more risky than taking action. Sad but true.

    On this subject I always think of that Colorado theater mass murderer.
    Two, or even one armed guy could have gotten close enough to him, in all of that confusion, to take him out even with a small back up gun.

    Like has already been said, offense.

    But hey, if you can, just run out the door! (Best option of all).
     
  6. RTAdmin

    RTAdmin Administrator Administrator

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    I agree with Jim on this one.

    You don't want to wait for a chance for you to be the next victim because you didn't decide to draw.
     
  7. squirrelhunter

    squirrelhunter Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    That's a good thing to hear :rolleyes:,good thing I hardly ever go out to eat.
     
  8. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporter

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    When out to eat I always sit with my back to the wall or in a booth with eyes on the entrance...already know where all the exits are...and carry concealed even if the establishment says No Guns Allowed. ( Concealed means just that...otherwise, it's just a misdemeanor trespass, and they ask you to leave. )

    My carry gun has a laser...I carry 10+1 with 2 spare mags ( 31 shots of .45 ACP total )...and the only thing that changes what I do next is if my family is present or not...

    If they are, I go low and head for an exit or kitchen door with the wife and my guns drawn...lasers on...as I engage dude that's the biggest threat and tell staff to call 911 as I guard door to see if they pursue...with the wife sweeping for a clear route of escape...

    If family is not present...go fast and low to exit / kitchen door as I engage dude that's the biggest threat...as I retreat to exit / cover... In the kitchen, evaluate the situation...putting as much stuff ( freezer/stove ) between me and that doorway...and check rear door / alleyway as an avenue of escape to safety.


    Of course...if I was one of the bad guys...I would already have at least one guy in the restaurant...maybe in bathroom waiting for screaming to start or coming through kitchen rear door to stop staff and people like me trying to escape / call help...
     
  9. Donn

    Donn Member

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    This scenario pops up in pretty much every gun forum I've seen. It seems the popular opinion is divided between those who'll wait to see what the bad guys are going to do and those who's first option is to draw. Choose the former and you might wait that split second too long. The latter and maybe you've escalated a dangerous situation past the point of no return. The sad truth is, just because you're armed and ready, there's no guarantee you'll prevail. It would be small consolation to your family that you went down fighting. What about collateral damage? The bad guys have demonstrated they don't care, but every round in your magazine or cylinder has a lawyer attached.. You could be sued by the very people you thought you were defending. If they just want the money in the register, let them have it. The business is insured for the loss. Will the bad guys start going table to table? Could be, but if it's broad daylight, time is not on their side. They've got to know that pretty much everybody has a cell phone and several have already dialed 911. What my friends and I do at our weekly breakfast is sit across the room from the register, right next to the emergency exit. Anything untoward happens, we're hitting that door. Mr. Bad guy decides to give chase, he's in for an unpleasant surprise. Having said all this, here's hoping it never happens.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  10. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    I have often thought about a scenario like this and wondering how I would re-act. Problem is, there can be so many different scenarios that it's hard to figure out what to do. I think garb would also give you some information on how to re-act. If they are wearing a towel on their head and have dresses(don't know the correct word), I would try to push my wife down on the floor, flip the table up for protection and try to take the leader out. IF I could, I would firstly try to find an exit and work my way towards it, then if I can't, then you don't have much of a choice. You would have to shoot and try to take out the most aggressive BG. Usually there is a leader and he is the instigator that needs to be eliminated. You would have to hope that you have the element of surprise and you catch him unaware of yourself and your family. Watch the eyes as they will give you and indication of what may happen next, who the target/targets will be. It would be hard to access the situation if they bust in the door and you and yours are sitting, relaxing and eating HOWEVER you must try to garner as much info as possible in the shortest amount of time, so you can make your decision. I hope I never have to make a decision like this.

    Tommy