no go ammo

Discussion in 'Ammo & Reloading' started by buster40c, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I just bought and received some 38 special wad cutter ammo and I am not to thrilled with it. Problem is when I chamber the ammo in my Rossi M-68 snub I can hardly get the cylinder to close and dang straight can't revolve the cylinder. The ammo is jammed tight against the backing plate. I notice I have to push the ammo in with my thumb to get them flush with the cylinder. Have to force the cylinder closed if I can even close it. Also I have to hit the ejector with something to eject the ammo. I tried some other reman ammo in the Rossi and have no problems with it. I have never had a problem with this Rossi jamming. I can't see any light between the plate and the casings with this ammo but other ammo I see the clearance just fine.
    I tried the ammo in my Rossi M-85 which is basically a clone of the M-68 except it is stainless instead of blued. The ammo fits this gun ok. I put this ammo in my GP100 MC and it also works fine and can see the clearance as it should be. No problem ejecting these either with this ammo.
    I am guessing the clearance on the M-68 is tighter but still other ammo works fine in it. What is the problem here?
    Looking at the casing at the primer end it is thicker than my other ammo is. That has to be part of the problem and I wonder could that be causing the hard to eject also?
    Why is the top ridge thicker on this ammo?
    I checked the ammo casings and found various brands Federal, R-P 38+p, G.F.L., OBC, R-P, Blazer, and they all are having same problems.
    I checked my other reman ammo that does work ok and it also has many of the same brand cases. Why are these no go cases thicker on end?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  2. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    Buster,
    I noticed you have a lot of different cases and that COULD be part of the issue. Some casings will be a lot thicker than others. Also, are these reloads you are shooting and are they lubed enough? Another reason could be, that if they are remaned (I just noticed that) that they could have started the bullet seating too early which will expand the casing at the head. I have had some problems with that loading (reloading my .45). Also there may be less tolerance on that particular pistol versus the other pistols you have. I am not quite sure but this could be part of your problems. You might try running a micrometer over the rounds and checking to make sure that the difference between the head and the rest of the casing is within specs. Even though that is a straight cartridge, you will still have some (very little) taper to the round. Just a suggestion and hope it may help.

    Tommy
     

  3. MagBlackhawk

    MagBlackhawk Patriot

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    Quote:
    I checked the ammo casings and found various brands Federal, R-P 38+p, G.F.L., OBC, R-P, Blazer, and they all are having same problems.


    Are you saying this ammo does the same thing in the Rossi M-68 also?
    If so, I would think the Rossi's clearances are undersized.

    If the ammo in question is re-manufactured, (reloaded) possibly it was not sized properly/enough.

    There's two guesses.
     
  4. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    These are reman 38 special wad cutters with various casing manufacturers used. The only gun having the problem is the Rossi M-68 and no doubt it has closer tolerances than the other two. I can see light between the casing heads and the back plate on the other two guns. I have had this Rossi for over 40 years and this is only ammo it ever had a problem with. No my other reman ammo even though it has different casing manufactures like these have they are not giving me a problem at all. No doubt it is the head rim is to thick as well as the casing maybe bulged out a bit also.
    I think Tommy is right in that in the reloading process they are causing the head to be made thicker. Like I said they also are hard to eject where as other ammo just falls out of this gun. No doubt the head of casings are being distorted out of specs. I am going to give the reloader a call tomorrow about it. I think he perhaps was unloading some reject ammo he had that didn't pass specs.
    People can say what they want but this M-68 is very accurate also. Actually it is an M685 I believe because it doesn't have the adjustable rear sights. $175 gun is very surprising. For a little bit of history on this gun it was made and machined under S&W engineers and machinists back when S&W and Rossi were under the same parent company. Put an M68 beside S&W Model 36 and they are like brothers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  5. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    Buster,
    I am not stating this to be derogatory however when it comes to remanufactured rounds or reloaded rounds (which are remanufactured) I don't trust anyone except myself when it comes to using those rounds. I know it's quite a cost savings and many people purchase them due to cost or not being able to reload themselves. However, I have seen remanufactured rounds come from the factory with primers inserted UPSIDE DOWN right in the box. I am not kidding!!
    Plus on cast bullets, you really don't know what the alloys used are, softer or harder and it could also be the wad cutter round is not to a perfect standard. I would call the manufacturer and ask for replacement rounds or even send them back and get a credit or your money back. I am very particular when I reload and many, many times I have to ask for help. Just like today using the Titegroup powder, I want to be sure that the rounds are safe. If you decide to keep them, please be very, very careful when firing them. No telling on how they will react and how they will flash. Take care buddy!

    Tommy
     
  6. MagBlackhawk

    MagBlackhawk Patriot

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    I agree with Tommy.
    Pitch that ammo or send it back.

    If they won't work with you on it, you know they're the wrong people to do business with.
     
  7. berettabone

    berettabone In the army now..

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    It's why I don't shoot reloads...................period.
     
  8. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    Nothing wrong with shooting reloaded ammunition. It depends on WHO has reloaded them and how proficient they are. It takes a lot of time to inspect, clean, deprime, resize and then prime and seat the bullet. I know it takes me quite a while as my Herters reloader (single stage) is over 50 years old but it does a great job. And it is very time consuming, especially during our hot days. Many times though, the people who are reloading are NOT taking the time, patience and procedures to ensure they are shooting a safe and comfortable round. Even factory ammo can have some things that are detrimental. One good example is not all factory rounds are the same length even though they are in the same box. I have found that to be true many times. I can control my COAL because I am fussy enough to do all the required measurements and I know that all my powder charges are the same. If it weren't for my ability to reload, I couldn't afford to shoot very much at all. I will quit reloading when I win the Lotto but for now, reloading is my only choice.

    Tommy
     
  9. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    I have 'maintained the notion' for some time that some activities are therapeutic for mental well-being. Splitting firewood is one, reloading with a single stage press is another. These activities require paying attention (not paying attention while splitting chunks can have immediate consequences; reloading, they may be delayed until you pop the cap). Sharp focus on a repetitive job allows the unoccupied areas of the mind, below consciousness, to contemplate stuff that's been grumbling back there - that you maybe weren't even paying attention to.

    Yeah, there is also pride in workmanship and all that obvious stuff, but I'm being philosophical here, OK?
     
  10. berettabone

    berettabone In the army now..

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    I understand all the benefits of reloading...............................It's just one of my rules, we all have them............................................I stick to the firewood, sweeping the garage floor, mowing, fixing things as my mind cleaning...............;)
     
  11. MagBlackhawk

    MagBlackhawk Patriot

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    A fast motorcycle is good for mind cleaning also.
    Nothing like 40 bikes diving into turn one to put a persons mind at ease.
    To bad I'm too old for a good mind cleaning. :cheesy:

    Well, back to the loading bench.
     
  12. berettabone

    berettabone In the army now..

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    It's one of the reasons I like shooting, another mind cleaner......................................................
     
  13. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    Magnum you are to funny. 40 bikes screaming into a turn is mind cleansing eh? LOL I would say it does clean the mind for a few seconds while the knee is inches off the ground.
    It is a wonder I am here today because I used to hit the curves without a thought about going down. LOL nobody else followed me into curves. My sparks could light their cigarette. That was no crotch rocket but often was a full dresser Harley.
     
  14. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    Yep, whatever works for you. It strikes me that the "idle rich", who pay someone to do all that stuff for them, must have seriously cluttered up minds.
     
  15. RavenU

    RavenU In the army now..

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    Whenever I plan on using reloads I, first, run them through one of THESE. They're some of the most useful, 'gun tools' I own, are definitely worth the money, and have often saved me from a lot of what might have been, otherwise, annoying problems.

    (Usually do it while I'm watching television, too, because my hands alone can tell me everything I need to know.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  16. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    Uh-oh. Looks like my next investment; .45 auto certainly, maybe 9x19 - for starters.
     
  17. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling if I used those to test my newest bought reloads that they would fail. I left a message with vendor I bought from and he hasn't returned my call. I am really thinking the reason these were cheap and no freight is because they were known rejects. They are performing ok in all but the one gun I have tried them in. That failure was the head rim is to thick to close the cylinder.
     
  18. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    Buster,

    Case gauge the rounds and see how tight they fit in the gauge. If they have to be pushed hard into the gauge, then they are NOT to be used. If you don't have a case gauge (go/no go) then used the barrel of the pistol and see if they will FALL into the barrel. If not then do as I stated before. Please DO NOT try to fire these rounds until you have done your homework!!!!

    Tommy
     
  19. RavenU

    RavenU In the army now..

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    Yes, if you don't mind taking your semiautomatic pistol apart, you can use the detached barrel as an expedient case gauge; but, barrel-checking ammunition can miss physical anomalies in the area around the case head; and on some barrels it'll, also, do a poor job of checking COAL. (Nothing works as well as an actual cartridge gauge where you can see and feel both ends of the cartridge while you're working!)*

    I'm an absolute fanatic about pulling the trigger and hearing the gun go, 'Bang!' Along with extra pistol springs, and spare magazines I even carry a set of 9 x 19mm, and 45 ACP Wilson cartridge gauges in my range bag. People might ask whether or not I've ever really had to use them while I've been away from the loading bench? Yes, every now and then, this habit has come in handy for checking cheap and potentially troublesome commercial ammo like Winchester, 'White Box', or Blazer Aluminum.

    My own handloads are always tested; and, once I begin shooting, it's extremely rare for me to have a stoppage. However the same thing isn't true for many of the people I shoot with. Too many shooters I know have had problems with reloaded ammo; and, once this sort of thing starts, it can ruin what might, otherwise, have been a good day at the range!

    In years past it has not been uncommon for me to go through as many as 10 or 12 thousand fired rounds without experiencing any sort of ammunition-related problem; nor is it uncommon for me to loan one of my cartridge gauges to another shooter who's experiencing a lot of stoppages. (It's almost always the cartridge; and only rarely some sort of spring, or follower problem.)

    I've, also, used several different brands of cartridge gauges; and, so far, I like Wilson the best. Why the word, 'gauge' is so egregiously misspelled on their website is beyond me; but, to be perfectly candid, I don't think silly things like spelling, or syntax (or mathematics) really matter, anymore, in America anyway!) :rolleyes:



    * By the way, it can get confusing; but chamber, 'go/no go' gauges are not the same thing as cartridge dimension gauges; nor are they used in quite the same way. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  20. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    I've found another 'drop test' for those .45 auto reloads I was having trouble with. They don't drop into the chambers of my new Ruger Blackhawk 45 Convertible, either cylinder. I finally got around to applying my micrometer to the bullets. The box says they are .452, but they run close to .453.

    I have 500 of these Laser-Cast "Silver Bullets". Saturday I placed an order for a Lee .452 swaging assembly. It may get here today - the dealer is close by. Hoping that will do the job.