natural right

Discussion in 'Second Amendment and Legal' started by buster40c, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    Self defense is an absolute natural given self protection ability not a right to be given or taken away by anyone else.
    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlTERtX0hNc[/ame]
     
  2. gunslinger669

    gunslinger669 Active Member

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    Your ability to defend yourself has nothing to do with the second amendment. "Fight or flight" is a choice you make. What you use to enhance your final choice, be it fists, a gun or sword or 2x4 in a fight- or a car, bicycle or your legs in a flight choice is determined by what you have available in the moment. The second amendment establishes your constitutional right to have arms available to you should you choose to use them in a fight scenario.

    The speaker's argument in the video is ridiculous- using his logic I should have the right to use a 20mm cannon to stop a mugging.

    The harder people push for an all or nothing interpretation of any law, the more likely you're to get nothing. Find some common sense common ground and work from there.
     

  3. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    The problem with common ground is it is exactly what is being used to limit man's right to self protection as well as many other rights. You don't need more than a 7 round magazine, or a rifle that can hit a target 500 yards away, or bigger than a 38 special round. Who decides what is common ground? The politicians or some wealthy man from New York have a right to say what common ground is? Your argument about why the speaker's point is ridiculous is perfect example of inflicting far fetched ideas to discredit the point. The point is the right to self protection with arms is not to be infringed upon. Personally I doubt anyone would drag a cannon around with them for protection.
    The second amendment has nothing to do with self protection? I guess the second only means I can have a gun only to protect our country if I am in a group fighting back tyranny from the government? I see nothing in the wording saying my right to bear arms is to be restricted in any way or is only for approved self protection decided by common ground beliefs or limitations by others.
    There in lies the problem. The 2nd is read into by those wanting to control man's ability to protect himself. Just like the Constitution is the law of the land somehow has been read into that states are not included in the law of the land. If the Constitution was read as it is then there would be no question of what it says. The founders wrote it as it is because they knew today would come. The real problem is it is not being followed according to wording but rather what has been read into it. Separation of church and state is the perfect example of that. Look at what the so called living constitution has done to this country. Living and breathing constitution really means the constitution is totally open to common ground. Common ground is not the law of the land because common ground is not based in law.
    If I shoot an intruder or attacker in the back as he has turned and is trying to escape from me, or can I blast a person into pieces after he is down? No because I no longer am defending my life because the man is now not a threat to my life. People want other people to spew that the 2nd is a right to murder without justice. No it isn't but it does give me the right to defend my life when it is justified. I like 99.9% of people with guns hope I never have to use a gun. I am not the trigger happy gun lunatic that the common ground what to portray me as. Common ground has no constitutional ground when it tries to rewrite or bury the constitutional law.
    Look what is happening in many countries across the globe. People are being forced to starve and if they try and leave for hopefully a better life they are stopped. If they had guns they could get past those wishing genocide on them. People better wake up to who runs the common ground. Nah that is all just tin foil hat crap? Tell that to the starving and dying across the globe.
     
  4. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

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    Buster, that isn't 'common ground'. Common ground is a position both sides of an argument agree upon, i.e. there is no argument about it.

    I don't know how far back common ground is in this disagreement, but hope it is somewhere closer than agreeing that 'up' is up.
     
  5. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    When you have two parties that have no right to decide what will be common ground but take the authority to state what the two have decided and agreed upon shall be then lawful common ground then you have a real problem. Just like the SCOTUS has taken it upon themselves to read into the Constitution by their own interpretations of original meaning. They have decided among themselves the common ground to change the discernment of the Constitution.

    I don't see any common ground between two that can't agree on the meaning of shall not be infringed.
    Gun free zones are absolute proof that signs don't protect any lives. Gun free zones infringe on my right to protect myself and others. Yep I have the right to not enter any business that puts their own fear of law suits over my right to protect myself.
    Also the second was written because they knew a 2x4, or my fists, or a knife, or an ax was not really protection against my enemy with a gun. No the second wasn't written allowing me to defend myself, it was written so my means of defending myself was not at a disadvantage being disarmed.
    Why is man over all the beasts? Because man has at his use the advantages of defense to survive over the beasts. Take man's defenses away from him and he will be extinct. The men that can control the food, water, money and right of man to defend himself shall over come all of mankind. Look around it is happening right now on a very global scale.
    Isn't it strange that a person can't carry a gun in most city neighborhoods while out strolling with his family. He is not allowed to protect himself with a gun from a dog that chooses to attack and has over 700 lbs. per square inch of jaw power. I have yet to see a bag guy get away from a police K-9. I don't expect a law abiding citizen could get away unharmed from an attacking dog either. But no the law abiding man can't have a gun for protection from something that could kill him. I will never accept ignorance as common ground regarding my right to self protection.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  6. gunslinger669

    gunslinger669 Active Member

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    Nature gave you the ABILITY to protect yourself or to run. You have the ABILITY to use tools. A group of men gave you the RIGHT to use a weapon. A group of people can take it away. Vote. Educate others. Help the sheep see the light. It's the only weapon that really works.
     
  7. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    Funny how man expected man would try and take away our natural right to protect ourselves. I guess they figured someday we would be no more than sheep being led to be sheared.
     
  8. gunslinger669

    gunslinger669 Active Member

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    I'm sorry, but I don't understand the point you're trying to make.



    Also, I can't post in politics and religion- or military can someone fix that, or do I need to do something?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  9. DoubleR

    DoubleR Active Member

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    I'm working on that for you GunSlinger.
     
  10. 6-Oclock

    6-Oclock New Member

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    Wanna stop air polution from car exhaust? Simply controll the amount of fuel a person can buy, not tell them they can't own a car. Wanna stop gun violence? Simply limit the amount of ammo they can buy, not tell them they can't own a gun. Is this common ground? An agreement is nothing more than compromise, common ground is nothing more than compromise. I don't compromise, every payday I buy a few more boxes of ammo... I wish I could store gas as easy! :tiphat:
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  11. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    You are right in that common ground is nothing but a compromise. The only problem is we are not able to partake in the compromising. That is done by parties speaking, supposedly, for us. I think we all know there really is only one party now and the public is not invited to the party. How in the heck anyone can think they can limit my ability to protect myself, which causes me to be at a disadvantage against my transgressor. This is absolutely for only one purpose. That purpose is for someone else to have power over me.
    Imagine if the beasts from the beginning could have limited man's use of weapons. Man would possibly have been extinct long ago.
    Look at the people in Syria and Austria that can't even escape their evil governments because they are unarmed. The problem isn't the people, it is their governments and other governments trying to take over their countries and their lives. It takes a very evil person to starve a child to death.
     
  12. DoubleR

    DoubleR Active Member

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    You bet! :)
    For those looking at access to the Politics & Religion Thread it is one of the Premium Member perks.
    Also active/retired Military and Law Enforcement can get access to the Military/Law Enforcement section by contraction (PM) one of the Moderators or Admins and we can get that set up for you. You must be active or retired to gain access.
    Hope this helps! :)
     
  13. gunslinger669

    gunslinger669 Active Member

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    What's wrong with Austria? What makes the government there evil?
     
  14. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    My mistake on Austria. They are getting swamped with refugees.
     
  15. 6-Oclock

    6-Oclock New Member

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    And if things go as predicted, the USA will be taking some on as well. There is a promise that these people will have to pass Homeland Security prohibitions and clearances via background ground checks. Where are they going to be housed, how will they make a living, how will they get here? I believe this was stated in the news this morning, if I miss-heard, please feel free to correct me.
     
  16. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    6 I wonder about the same things as you. From a report I read the US is paying out a lot of money providing transportation for these refugees. When Austria is over a thousand miles from Syria they sure aren't walking the whole way there. Can you imagine your family walking even 150 miles with no food or water or shelter during much of the journey? When a family takes on a journey like that you can bet it was very bad where they left behind.
    They want to say the people are revolting but IMO it is the people getting forced out by other governments that want to take over their government and land. Israel has literally wiped out much of Palestine but yet Israel wants to claim Palestine has done so much damage to Israel. Check out the damage done to Palestine cities and then show me any damage in Israel that even compares to that destruction. Israel wants the land and it doesn't matter how many innocent people lose their homes and lives. This is exactly what is happening now in Syria. If they have to level Syria to get the people to leave then that's what they will do to take over the country.
    But then we had and are still having thousands a day illegally coming across our borders and guess who is providing for these people. Does anyone really think over 100,000 people walked from South America to the US borders? Unemployment here is actually around 23% so where are the jobs for these illegal immigrants? Can you imagine how much faster our national debt is growing now when at least fifty cents of each dollar spent is borrowed? This is not sustainable no matter how you look at it. Maybe that's why we aren't hearing daily about it. Talk about a stock market and economy crash. To bad ignoring it will not fix it. It is inevitable a crash is coming. That's not my opinion but the opinion of highly educated economists. Does it make anyone wonder why Obama fills his cabinets with unqualified people that are just puppets? He doesn't want any whistle blowing educated experts yapping in his ear or to the public.
     
  17. gunslinger669

    gunslinger669 Active Member

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    The immigrants are doing the jobs no American citizen wants to do. American employers don't want to pay a "competitive wage" so they pay what they want to anyone who's willing to do the job. NOT the only reason we're having problems, but definitely part of it.
     
  18. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    You are partly right. It used to be around here Micky dees employees were mostly black Americans but that has changed. I don't believe the blacks didn't want the jobs any more but rather the company wanted even cheaper labor so now most of the employees are now Spanish. $15 minimum wage is going to bring in the computerized self pump version for customers to get served, Just like in the airports now. You got your order wrong? Guess who put in the order? HA HA if a person complains then a mirror will pop up with a sign saying talk to the person who put in the order.
    It will not be far in the future people will be fighting for those so called nobody wanted jobs. During the Great Depression the foreigners were deported so Americans could have the jobs.
    IMO the USA is being culled and actually being started over. There are so many Americans on some sort of welfare the government is being strapped trying to pay for it with dollars that are 50% borrowed in the first place. The government is steadily adding more people onto the welfare list. This country can't go on running with the people being mostly paper pushers or service jobs. I challenge anyone to go into a store and find but a minimum of products made here in the USA. I sold wiring looms for one of the biggest USA truck manufacturers for $1200 and it was made in Russia. I bet 70%+ of the parts were made in a foreign country. People wonder why Detroit factories are closed only have to look at the window sticker on their new car and see 80% of the parts are foreign made and in many cases the vehicle wasn't even assembled in the US. Big business and our government sold our jobs for a cheap price.
    You can bet your hind end Americans will work those low paying jobs because they have no choice but to work them. That's if they can get the jobs! Good luck with that when they are told they are over qualified.
     
  19. gunslinger669

    gunslinger669 Active Member

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    Welfare spending is about the same as it was 35 years ago, plus or minus 1%. Foreign manufacturers quality surpassed US quality in the 80s while the US unions were practically holding auto manufacturers hostage. The US has been playing catch up ever since.