Knives for defending how realistic is it?

Discussion in 'Knife and Blade' started by conservative, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. conservative

    conservative New Member

    279
    5
    0
    How realistically can one expect to defend themselves with a knife in a world flooded with guns? Curious.
     
  2. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    12,932
    96
    48
    Just me,

    but I would never take a knife to a gun fight...;)






    Jim
     

  3. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

    8,549
    266
    83
    Unless like Superman you are faster than a speeding bullet then your money would be better spent on a gun.
     
  4. conservative

    conservative New Member

    279
    5
    0
  5. allenr

    allenr Member

    551
    11
    18
    Obviously no gun can prevail in a gunfight until your opponent runs out of ammo. At that point the knife is more lethal than the gun.

    That does not mean that the knife cannot be lethal in the presence of an armed gun. In an encounter at minimal close quarter like a foot distance a knife can do a world of harm even when facing a gun.

    Not to be misunderstood I emphasize that a knife is not a substitute for a gun. But, used properly,it is a very lethal weapon. There is little opportunity to train to knife fight, but if you understand how and when to slash and stab offensively you can turn the shortest of (sharp) blades into very lethal weapons.

    I could write thousands of words on point based upon my training and war-fighting in the Corps. Baring that that you can accept or ignore this old Marine's opinion.

    There is a reason that in WWII the Marines fostered development of the Kbar fighting knife. When all else failed Marines were trained to the knife to win. I can attest to the established fact that a properly trained person with a knife brings a lethal element to the fight. Train to use a knife and you are one weapon ahead of an aggressor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
    SGW Gunsmith likes this.
  6. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

    2,733
    22
    38
    I feel the need to inquire about the 'tactical pen'. Amazon has a page of them.
     
  7. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

    8,549
    266
    83
    Like allenr said but didn't say is that if your attacker misses you with 18 rounds from his 9 mm handgun then your knife will come in handy and could be very lethal against your attacker.

    I have one of those tactical pens and believe me I haven't quit carrying a gun.

    A brother in law was telling about a guy that said he better watch out because he was a black belt and his hands were lethal weapons. My BIL, a Marine, said I have my lethal baseball bat so come on with your lethal hands.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  8. Oldhand

    Oldhand AKA Rawhidekid! Lifetime Supporter

    1,868
    33
    48
    Also remember, if one has stealth, they can use a knife to gain a gun.;)
     
  9. spikedriver

    spikedriver Active Member

    992
    58
    28
    Only thing I know about knives for defense is its not like the movies. I studied crime a little in college and stab wounds are rarely disabling and even more rarely fatal. What they are is very painful. If an attacker gets a couple slices on his forearms from the would be victim, it's fairly likely he will decide not to continue his aggression. The downfall is, that the attacker must be within arm's reach to use the knife, which means he can reach you too. The fund's advantage is the ability to be effective from distance, before the attacker can reach the victim.
     
  10. Oldhand

    Oldhand AKA Rawhidekid! Lifetime Supporter

    1,868
    33
    48
    You never heard of throwing a knife?
     
  11. spikedriver

    spikedriver Active Member

    992
    58
    28
    ^^^ of course, but still not as effective
     
  12. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

    8,549
    266
    83
    I always heard never throw your knife. Funny in the movies they often throw the gun when it is out of ammo. Wouldn't it be better to keep it since you might be able to use it as a hammer and bash the bg brains in?
     
  13. SavageGuy

    SavageGuy Active Member

    3,442
    15
    38

    ^^here's the answer.

    Some very good points on this thread. I very rarely carry a gun without a knife. Better than a sharp stick and it's a good backup because it can't run outta ammo
     
  14. conservative

    conservative New Member

    279
    5
    0
    Good points! A friend of mine wanted to claim that he could pull and use his knife before I could draw and shoot. Not having had the opportunity to test this out, but knowing of the hip draw I told him probably not . What you all think? He cited some distance at which he claimed that the knife would be more effective.
     
  15. allenr

    allenr Member

    551
    11
    18

    The problem with s a tactical pen is that it is designed as a stabbing weapon. A trained knife fighter knows that stabbing is the least effective use of the knife. It will not penetrate ribs. If it slides between ribs unless it is long it will not reach a vital organ or artery.

    You are better off with a very sharp folding knife because the best use of the knife is to slash. A slash can cut either carotid artery, deliver a psychologically alarming wound, blind a person, and cut a windpipe. And a 3.5 inch blade can do all that if used properly.
     
  16. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    12,932
    96
    48
    I just keep thinking ....why I practice while moving,draw, point and shoot, double tap.....at 7 to 10 yrds.

    I guess its because I don't intend to let a guy with any weapon , including a knife, get close enough to me to do any damage.

    Back in the 60s when we were taught to kill Charlie or he will kill you.

    Now if we are talking about an empty gun against a knife...that's a no-brainer...




    Jim
     
  17. allenr

    allenr Member

    551
    11
    18

    Of course that assumes he is carrying that size payload. How about this scenario. The gunman has a revolver with 5 rounds in it. He takes a shot at me from a distance and misses. I then scoot and cover repeatedly and he continues to fire in an effort to hit me. I scoot only across his line of fire because that is the most difficult moving target to hit. Eventually he empties the cylinder. Now it is my turn to close on him. The gunfight is over and he is bringing fists to a knife fight. He loses.

    In a very close quarter encounter, as in face-to- face, if I fear the gunman is likely to shoot I have two options: get shot at point blank range or fight.

    My training taught me to use my weak side hand to grab the gun barrel and twist upward so the barrel is pointed upward. Then using the strong side hand draw the knife and cross slash the face. Amazing how disorienting having your face slashed twice is.

    Then stab the the gunman in the wrist holding the gun. If the wrist is heavily covered like with a coat sleeve stab the hand and twist that wrist back and away from you. You will end up possessing the gun or dead.

    By the way that entire series of moves should take less than four seconds. That means you have to have a readily accessible and drawable fixed blade knife or be damn good at getting a folding knife out and opened in about a second.

    I carry both type knives that are razor sharp and never used for cutting.
     
  18. VThillman

    VThillman Active Member

    2,733
    22
    38
    I believe every word of that. It seems to me that a tactical pen, at least for those of us not thoroughly trained in hand to hand, is a 'concealed in plain sight' weapon intended to allow close approach. Since it can only stab, it needs to be stabbed into an eye and on into the brain, or into the solar plexus and up to perforate the diaphragm - which is probably not soon enough disabling.
     
  19. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

    8,549
    266
    83
    I watched a video about five guys putting the knife to the gun test from 20' and only once did the guy with the gun get a shot off before the knife wielder got to him. The test IMO proved the 20' rule needed to be lengthened out farther also.
    The test was done with the guns being IWB at different belt to body positions. I am a firm believer in OWB carry due to IMO quicker access to draw the gun and shoot,

    I found this video and it really does take a more real life scenario of a knife versus a gun. The only way the gun will beat the knife is if the person with the gun sees the knife and then I believe even with the 21' rule the gun might not be drawn before the knife sticks him. Like the video says more than likely a person with a knife will wait to show the knife until they are almost on top of the person. Like the man says in the video this isn't Hollywood..

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fjMpn7JCJ0[/ame]

    In the scenario you are in a restaurant and a BG person is already displaying a gun then your knife will more than likely not be a good defense because the gun has the advantage by being drawn already. This is where you don't take a knife to a gun fight came from.

    Here is another video from Myth Busters which is not so much real life because the knife is seen and the other guy is rather slow on the draw and shoot. But then again like he says in real life your brain has to deal with real life adrenalin.
    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckz7EmDxhtU[/ame]

    So after some realization a knife can be a good killing/defense tool but when the person with the gun is on the offense the gun should win and end the scenario. I said should!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
  20. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporter

    7,454
    16
    38
    This Michael Janich Seminar series was very helpful when we were being trained for field duty...

    Martial Arts and Blade Training incorporated:

    http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/