CONCEALED CARRY & HOME DEFENSE-Should you use your gun to stop a crime?

Discussion in 'Second Amendment and Legal' started by Ernesto, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. Ernesto

    Ernesto In the army now..

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    OK this has bothered me for awhile and considering all the newer open carry and concealed carry laws with more citizens arming themselves I'd like to hear more on this subject as many dont take the classes for that. Perhaps this has been discussed in depth here but since I'm a new/er member maybe a refresher course should be talked about.

    Considering all the scenerios you may encounter while carrying a weapon; when should you use it? Personally I'm just as afraid of being shot by some gung ho law abiding citizen with no training these days as being shot by a criminal.

    Here's a nice article which raises the questions we should all be thinking about. And I've seen some comments on here that would raise eyebrows. Also think about if a law enforcement officer was to walk into a scene and there ya are in a shoot out with a criminal-can he decide whether or not your the attacker or not!!

    Please take the time to read this short article and reply. Perhaps some law enforcement people can respond as well.

    Thanks.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/30/should-you-use-your-gun-to-stop-a-crime/
     
  2. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    First off I don't fear gung ho legally armed citizens shooting me. Yes it is possible but I think way less probability than I will run into a gung ho criminal shooting at me. But that's my opinion. I really believe when a person gets a concealed license the thought of the responsibility that goes with it is often very thought provoking. You that carry I am sure remember the first time you concealed carry outside of the house. You were so concerned was anyone watching you or was your gun showing or even was it printing. Gung ho shooting from a licensed legal law abiding citizen is no concern of mine. But that is just my thought and belief.
    As little as I go anywhere I figure I have less than .01% I will ever have to use a weapon. People think cops are trigger happy but I know that a large number of cops don't ever have to use their gun through out their career. Sorry to say that has gotten more than a few cops killed in the line of duty.
    As far as life changing that is another reason NOT to go gung ho with a license to carry. I also carry full legal representation in case that .01% does happen. $140 a year and I don't pay for any other legal defense costs.
    Relating to the store robbery and I am outside. I am not a police officer and calling 911 would be my first response. I figure my chances of getting into the store without my getting shot is probably very minimal. I will not be able to help those inside if I am shot dead at the door. My trying to go in could also put people's lives in bigger or deadlier danger. I don't wear a protective vest. I have thought about getting one though. I will be outside with my gun in ready 1.
    I have shot guns outside and didn't have hearing protection on. My ears sounded like listening through a sea shell for a week. I carry a revolver loaded with .357 magnum ammo. I don't want to fire my gun unless my life depended on it. Because firing a .357 I will probably be deaf for a few days if not longer.
    If there were to be a shooting in my neighborhood I am not going out my door. Call 911 because I don't know who the bad guy or the good guy is. Maybe they are both bad guys or the opposite could be both good guys that were doing something stupid according to the courts. Cops really are not paid enough for what danger they are put into.
    I sometimes, but should be all the time, carry an electronic hand held stun gun. Maybe I am stupid but I really don't want to use a gun on an unarmed person. It depends how big or how crazy the bad guy is. Again split second decisions have to be made and I hope I make the right choice at the right time. Just how close do you let someone get to your danger zone? Is the person smiling or sweating with a crazed look in his eyes. Is the person walking nonchalant towards me then breaks into a run? Split second time is here.
    A shooting in your home you better stop firing when the threat is stopped. If the BG turns and is going away from you then you better just yell keep running because if you turn back towards me you will be shot. Remember your weapon is only to protect you or another in a threat of immediate harm or death.
    People are led to believe that people get a license to carry because they want to play dirty harry. What a crock of truth twisting that is. Criminals don't get licensed to carry a gun.
    I don't mean in any way to step on toes or opinions or personal beliefs. This is just "MY" thoughts about it.
     

  3. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    If you pull your weapon, shoot another human being...

    Another thing to consider, along with what Buster said, is....

    You better have a gun specialist lawyer , you can depnd on.
    And he better be available quickly.

    And you better have at a minimum, $50,000 on hand ,for lawyer fees and court costs, and be ready to spend a lot of time in a court room.

    Yes , EVEN if it was justifiable self defense.

    I know a guy very well, that went thru this, he was ruined financially, pretty much for life.

    You better think real hard before using a weapon.

    Jim
     
  4. Ernesto

    Ernesto In the army now..

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    I respect your beliefs.

    However, you no longer need to get a CCW permit and take a course in AZ. So theres lots of people out there that are not trained as they should be. One reason I'd like to see mandatory training for personal protection. But then that steps on toes of people wanting zero background checks and permitting. I can relate.
    But yeah, some yahoo thinking he is Dirty Harry could conceivably kill innocent bystanders. This is one reason I step away from open carry people. I have no idea what your qualifications are for using that weapon. Those people make me nervous.
    I'm gonna be 60 years old Friday. I've had guns since I was twelve or so. The only reason I CC is to defend my person and family. At my home this would be a different story completely. AZ laws are very in favor of home protection. Know your state laws.
    I would step back in any crime situation unless confronted. But then again if there some terrorist thing going on I may do something, it would depend on the situation at hand.
    I think law enforcement officers would agree.

    I was at a local gun shop last weekend and the sales clerk - a range offical - was showing a woman a gun..ruger LC9 and she didnt even know how to load the weapon. Hopefully she goes to a class voluntarily.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  5. DoubleR

    DoubleR Active Member

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    When did AZ drop the requirements of a permit and class?
     
  6. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    They dropped them, I believe the first part of last year. And they set up another amendment which is supposed to kept the Feds out of our state laws concerning the 2nd amendment.
    Tommy
     
  7. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    My legal coverage takes over as soon as I call the 24 hr. hot line. The attorneys are specialized in gun law. I pay basically just for court costs and bail out. I have paid for legal defense whether it be criminal trial or civil suit. If criminal case is lost and found guilty then they will not represent me in a civil suit though.
    Like Jim said if you pull the trigger you better have at least 25 grand to start off with at the get go. It wouldn't be out of the question to maybe need spend over 100 grand for legal defense going to court for indictment. The retired man in Houston that shot those people robbing the neighbors was found innocent but he still lost his life savings and his home. He said if he had to do it over he would not pull the trigger.
    I agree with you Ernesto in that a person should be required to take a gun safety and shooting course when purchasing a gun if they couldn't pass a simple gun knowledge test at the time of gun sale. But yes that would get a lot of flack.
     
  8. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    I am in the mind that if I were in a convenience store and the BG had a gun pointed at the clerk, I would just stand there and let him rob the clerk, get a good description, see where he goes and what kind of vehicle he/she is in and then call 911. Now, if my wife or grand kids or kids were in there or if the BG started to cock his weapon or start shooting, only then would I intervene. My job is not to protect the general public unless it is a dire situation. The cops are paid to do that. The only time, MHO is if you pull out your weapon, be ready to use it. Should someone break into my house, then that BG is mine! I am not worried about someone going armed in Az however I think it is in your best interests, even though we have open carry, conceal your weapon as best you can. I don't want the BG to pick me out of a crowd and become a martyr. Circumstances dictate when and where you should. If in a crowd you have to take into consideration of where that bullet might end up should you miss. Do you want to hit an innocent? If you are in a shopping mall, should you even think about firing your weapon if you can hide or get out of the way should some shooting start. If I am able, I will TRY to run although I am not in the best of physical condition, but these are things we must bear in mind. I hope I never have to use mine. I did have to show it one time to a young thug who was going to push me off the road and he kept hollering he was going to kick my azz. Finally after about a mile, I pulled out my pistol and his eyes got big and he asked if I was going to shoot him. I just nodded yes and he asked again and I nodded yes again. He screamed "you are crazy!". Again I nodded yes. The first right hand turn that came up, he took it. All the while my wife was on the phone, getting a vehicle description, his description and license number. The conflict was over by just showing my weapon. I hope I never have to do this again but it got the job done. We went on home and no more was heard of it.
    Tommy
     
  9. DoubleR

    DoubleR Active Member

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    Thanks! I'll look into it. Wasn't aware of the change.
    Wonder how they got NV to accept their permits without training. NV is pretty particular. Appreciate the info :)
     
  10. MagBlackhawk

    MagBlackhawk Patriot

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    CONCEALED CARRY & HOME DEFENSE-Should you use your gun to stop a crime?.............. This is just my opinion below.

    If you're in a store, bank or whatever. No, Run or Hide if you can. Never be a hero, be a good witness for the police.
    If the bad guy starts to round up you and the others to go into the back, that is a whole different story!

    If a BG kicks in your front door, order him out while pointing at him. If he advances, do what ever it takes to protect yourself and family.
    Do not try to hold him for the police. If he runs away he probably will not come back. Just be a good witness.

    Never inject yourself into a situation. You may not be able to determine exactly what is going on or how many adversaries you are dealing with.
    A guy in Texas got shot in the back by the robbers woman! I think she was pushing a shopping cart around at the time.

    You may be morally obligated in some situations but generally, anything you can do to avoid pulling the trigger........... Just my opinion.
     
  11. berettabone

    berettabone In the army now..

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    You got lucky...............up here they call that brandishing............if the guy would have gotten your license number, he could have reported you, and you would have had lots of questions to answer. In CCL class, the instructor said, if you ever have to pull your firearm, immediately go to the nearest police station and tell them what happened...........could keep you from a brandishing charge, which could cost you your license.
     
  12. berettabone

    berettabone In the army now..

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    My CCL class was 9 hrs. with a qualifying shoot after.....................I think that everyone should have to do a qualifying shoot, and show that they can disassemble, and reassemble their weapon of choice. Eliminate the worrysome.....................
     
  13. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine was driving home from work and car came up beside her and scaring her. She held up the barrel of her revolver to the window. They took off.
    Yes sometimes the jerk can call it in that you brandished a gun at them and then the cops could be paying you a visit. My response would be the jerk was threatening me until I showed I was armed. The jerk sped off but I didn't follow which proves I was not looking for trouble.
    Granted it is best not to pull a weapon if you are not going to use. The other person just might have a gun and if you pulled first he can use that as reason to shoot you. There isn't anything cut and dried when dealing with a bad situation.
    The instructor of my CHL class told the class that you will now become a very friendly driver. No flipping off someone, yelling, or blowing your horn at them because that could be taken as you instigated the problem. He said if you never went in bad areas of town before then you keep it that way. I believe he made people aware of the responsibilities of having a CHL.
     
  14. Ernesto

    Ernesto In the army now..

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    I dont see whats wrong with mandatory training. I did it when I was twelve with the NRA. Letssee, that was just arounf 48 years ago. :eek:
     
  15. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    When you are driving down the road for 2 miles and a man half your age and twice your size follows you and hollers out the window he wants to kick your azz, you would think differently. I was changing lanes to get out of his was, over 3 times so he could pass. Meanwhile my wife was on the phone to the local PD explaining how we were being harassed. 3 times he came over in my lane and was close to hitting our car. There are times when morons will not listen to logic. If brandishing my weapon is an offense, then so be it and I will face the charges. However when you are in a situation that you DON'T KNOW what that persons intent is, and he is only screaming at you, I say then that's the time to brandish! I will give up my license but I will NOT let myself nor my wife be endangered. Our names and addresses along with his information was given to the local PD for them to follow up on and nothing ever happened. Before you judge anyone, you need to know all the facts. Not being smart azz, just explaining the situation to give you a better understanding.
    Tommy
     
  16. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I think you both have stated correct thoughts about a bad situation. I think I might do as Tommy did. Sometimes we need to give a bully, aka moron, an understanding of how the scenario could get much worse.
    I think any court of law would understand an older couple would not be brandishing a gun threatening a younger bigger person unless justified reasoning. Even Bonnie and Clyde didn't do that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  17. Ernesto

    Ernesto In the army now..

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    If I was in Tommy's situation I would pull over, let him come to the window and see my pistola on my lap. Then he can decide what action he would like to take from there.
     
  18. buster40c

    buster40c Well-Known Member

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    I guess we never know what we will do till it happens. Like Mag said pulling the trigger is the last action any of us every want to take.
     
  19. Tommycourt

    Tommycourt Tommycourt

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    I thought about that for a minute however dismissed the idea as I did not want the bad situation to escalate. It was better to keep driving and let him insult me as that won't hurt me. All I wanted was for him to see my weapon. I did NOT wave it, point it or in any way try to intimidate him. All my intent was to let him know that I was armed and that if he really wanted to pursue the situation farther, he would suffer severe consequences. He could of happen to have a weapon of his own, I don't know, but if I had stopped I am sure he would have rushed over to out little Scion and tried to open the doors. They were already locked. After showing my weapon, he got the idea and made a right turn as quickly as possible. All was over then and I felt a sigh of relief as did my wife.
    I did NOT want to hurt him but I neither wanted him to inflict harm on myself or my wife. I just wanted him to go away.
    Tommy
     
  20. phideaux

    phideaux Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Back about 5 yrs ago, I had a similar incident,

    Wife and I are on interstate 24 , Im in left lane, with a long line of semis in the right lane Im passing, doing 75 mph, thats all I will do, cruise is set.

    This white Ford pickup truck id riding my bumper, then he flashes his lights, he can clearly see I cant move over , I finally got a chance to move over, he pulls up beside me , doing 75 mph, the driver and passenger got their windows down and are screaming at us, and swerving toward me , very dangerous IMO.

    I reached down and got my 1911 , laid it on the dash. Thats it. he took off, and almost caused a crash getting off the next exit.

    Thats what I would do again , in the same situation.


    Jim