Ruger Talk Forums banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Patriot
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's an example of an experimenters fun. (Or folly?)

So in the beginning. I wanted to make loads that would shoot to the same point of aim @ 50 yd. as factory loads. At the time I had three Ruger 357 Mag's with 4"- 6.5" barrels. I didn't have a Super BlackHawk yet.

Using 158gr.JSP and JHP's I made magnum and mild loads that all shot to the same elevation at 50yd. And, to the same elevation as Win. 158gr. factory ammo in all three of my 357's. Next was 125gr. Same thing, but a sight adjustment was needed.(lighter bullets shoot lower). Then Sierra's 170gr. and 296 turned out to be my most accurate magnum load. It shoots higher than all the others so a sight adjustment for it was in order. Now I've got three different sight settings. A bunch of different loads, all target tested. And that's not counting wad-cutters! Come to find out if I used a 158gr. soft lead bullet and a slightly reduced load of Unique it would shoot high for a 158gr. And, right to the same point as my 170gr. magnum load at 50yd. (One sight setting for both magnum and mild loads, cool)

By now I've already been making 240gr.JHP full speed magnum loads for my semi-new Super BlackHawk with a 7.5" barrel. This time I didn't want to go crazy making every type of load I could dream up! And having learned that, all else being equal, heavier bullets shoot higher than lighter bullets. And backing off some with Unique takes em high. I tried a slightly reduced load of Unique and a 200gr.JHP. Presto! A heavy, hard kicking 240gr. magnum load and a semi-mild mannered 200gr. walking around load that both shoot to the same point at 50yd. WITH ONE SIGHT SETTING, and with good accuracy.
Wow, that was a long road! BTW,rifles work all different. And your mileage may vary.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
It was explained to me (by a female shooter who is a 'difficult' personality but very knowledgeable) that, particularly in a handgun, much of the POI variation is related to the dynamics of the muzzle flip. Not only do the heavier bullets tend to generate more flip, they stay in the barrel longer than light bullets when the charges are equally powerful*. Her recommendation for keeping the POI close was to slow down the lighter bullets.

Since we were talking .45 auto, that also meant playing with recoil springs - so I decided to settle for changing my hold.

[*equally powerful isn't quite what I want to say, but words escape me]
 

·
Patriot
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Yes, It seems like bullet "barrel time" and muzzle flip would explain why a heavier bullet tends to shoot higher than lighter bullets. In the 357 I've found that some powders/loads that are nowhere near magnum speed will shoot to the same point as a true magnum load at 50yd. And some powders that give near magnum performance will shoot higher than full speed magnums. Some powders that give velocity's more like a std. 38 spl. also shoot high. When using SR7625 with 158gr and 125gr jacketed bullets, they'll shoot to the same point of aim as my H110 loads and factory loads of the same bullet weights. And SR7625 makes for a mild load at best. This holds true even when backing way off from max. with SR7625. I have to wonder if the cause is not so much bullet speed as it is how fast the bullet starts off right out of the chamber? Or, how fast it picks up speed in the barrel. Differing burn rates inside the barrel could be what's happening I guess. That could explain why different powders shoot to different points of aim. Just a theory.
Unfortunately Hodgdon has discontinued SR7625 for 2015. Drat, back to the drawing board for my pet plinking load.

As for auto-loaders, I can't speak to what to expect in relation to impact points as I only load for close range practice with those. So if they shoot about the same as my factory carry loads that's all I need.

For me, fun guns are single action revolvers, lever action rifles and double barrel shotguns with exposed hammers. I guess I wanna be a cowboy?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
Yeah, acceleration in the barrel seems like a good way to look at it, because it involves both in-the-barrel time and, ah, flip impetus. It may be off the mark, but I like it.

If you are looking at plinking loads for your .38... Bullseye does that well. Some folks recommend tipping the barrel up between shots, to move the powder to the primer end of the case. And you may be able to locate Vihtavuori N320, which looks good in the manuals - similar burn rate to HP38/W231.
 

·
Tommycourt
Joined
·
2,139 Posts
Magnum,
Please advise me on the use of H110 powder for your pistol loads. I was pretty much under the assumption that it was more for rifle loading as my son uses it on his Blackout. How does the burn rate compare to W231 or Bullseye or even Unique. I am having a helluva time finding any powder for reloading my .45's. I like Bullseye however it is a little dirtier than W231. I have heard that Alliant has bought out many powder manufacturers and there are not that many new loading manuals out there. Some of my manuals are really old and my latest one is the Lyman's 19th edition and some powders are not even listed in the loading chart. My main bullet usage is Berry plated 230gr. RN which is my plinking and range rounds as that's what the 1911's were mainly built for. Any chart or book or reference you can direct me to would be greatly appreciated. Good to see another reloader on our thread. We can learn a lot from others and that is a blessing.
Tommy
 

·
Patriot
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
45 acp

Tommy,
H110 is WAY too slow of a powder for the .45 Auto. It's made for magnum pistol loads and .410 shotgun also I think. I've heard of people using it in the blackout. Win. 231 and Bullseye are very fast burning compared to H110. H110 and powders like H110 are not at all suitable for the 45 ACP. Unique is a little slower than 231 and Bullseye. Alliant lists a load for the 45 Auto using Unique.

Sorry, but I don't load the 45 Auto.
Go to: www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
They have lots of data free to see for: Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders.

For Unique and Bullseye and any other powder Alliant makes,
Go to: www.alliantpowder.com
They also have free to see data.

Powder manufactures started putting data on the web so I don't buy manuals anymore. With plated bullets data may be a little different than it is for jacketed bullets. A call to Berrys Bullets should be helpful with that. I have some Berrys plated for the 9mm but I haven't gotten to them yet. Let me know if I can help with anything else.

Hey, I lived in Phoenix for a year in the 1990's. Gets a little warm as I recollect.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
Wow. Lots of powders there I never even heard of, say nothing of seen for sale. When the shelf is bare though, and you are on the hunt, that list should be in your hip pocket, eh?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
Yeah a lot Ive never heard of.

I use a green highlight pen and mark my favorites.

I use a yellow highlight pen and mark the ones I use or have used .

Then mark in pink, a possible alternative.




Jim
 

·
Patriot
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
About a month ago I heard an interview with a Hodgdon Rep. say by the end of the year the shelves will have plenty if powder on them.

Lets hope that's true!
 

·
Tommycourt
Joined
·
2,139 Posts
Im sure that you guys are familiar with this burn rate chart, but it hangs by my reloading bench, and is a good refernce.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp


Jim
Jim,
I have that list of powders in my Lyman's 3rd edition although, when scanning through it, I found a lot of powders that I have never even heard of before. Man I really must be out of the loop. It sure differs from my Lyman's chart and I am going to have to sit down and make myself some notes from your list. Thanks for the info.
Tommy
 

·
Patriot
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
powder burning rates

Tommy,
Here is the problem with a powder chart this long. Several powders that may have virtually the same burning rate/speed are listed in an order that could be misleading.

Example; HP38 next 452AA next 453 next 231. Could give us the idea that HP38 is faster than 231. According to Hodgdon, HP38 and 231 are the same powders. Hodgdon now makes Win 231 and all other Winchester and IMR powders.

Same thing with H110 and Win 296. I use these two in the 357 and 44 Mag. Using 5 different loads with these two powders, H110 and 296 work out exactly the same. I have been told H110 and Win 296 come out of the same container. I believe this must be true.

Hogdon data for HP38 and Win231 is identical in every way.(At least the ones I've checked.) Same for H110 and Win 296. So we should keep this in mind as we study the chart. **IMPORTANT** We should re-work loads with every new can of powder!

Break time is over, back to making test loads for the 9mm with Berrys bullets and 231. Or? Is it HP38 in a Winchester can........... Hmmm?
Take Care, Catch you latter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
yes im not fond of that chart at all
aside from the "ive never heard of that ever" powders
im not fully confident in the listing
it gives a very distorted view of the real info
as we all know titegroup is not very much different in rate from BE or Red Dot
but this chart has it way far down
here is the only chart i have found to represent my experience
give it a look

Lapua Burn Rate Chart pdf
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
It's an interesting chart, and laid out well. Using the Vihtavuori powders as the leftmost 'baseline' helps, their powder IDs being a logical design. I see that it indicates that H110 is slightly faster than N110, which does not agree with any load listings I have seen.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
I agree with most of what is said,
But... its not meant to be an EXACT indicator , its only a general idea of slow to fast.

I dont take it as gospel,

Just to get an idea of slow fast powders.

I have seen lots of charts, and this one agrees with my findings as much as any chart Ive had.


Jim
 

·
Patriot
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No powder chart can be exact.
In one caliber a powder could slower than another powder. In a different caliber the opposite could be the case. So any chart is nothing more than a reference to give you a ROUGH idea of the burning rates of the powders listed.
 

·
Patriot
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks guncheese,

I just went to the Lapua chart.
It does have a good layout. Makes for one more reference.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top